He was only 26 when he led Team India from the front to a win in the Inaugural ICC T20 World Cup in 2007. There’s been looking back since then. It was one victory after the other – ODI World Cup 2011 and again ICC World Cup in 2013. MS Dhoni was the only cricket captain in the world to win all three of the major ICC trophies, under his captaincy. No wonder then that he has attained a cult status wherever he goes. He is worshipped not just sports aficionados but by every single person around.
Provoke Lifestyle Magazine caught up with an exclusive interview with MS Dhoni in Bangalore at the invitation of Rigi for Prabhav 2023, an electrifying gathering of creators coming together to inspire, collaborate, and celebrate the spirit of innovation and imagination. MSD was in his usual calm demeanor that he is known for, as he spoke to us about his days at the top of his cricketing career, the new innings in his life post the announcement of his retirement from international cricket, his inspiration and beyond.
How do you keep yourself cool when the situation is tense? Are you really cool inside or only the exterior that’s cool?
I’ve always been someone who believes in the process. Even in a tense situation I don’t think what if we lose the game, but on what the next step should be and what is the best way to make of the resources I have. If I have half a glass of water I don’t think of the other half that’s not there. I weigh the pros and cons immediately. It’s important to take a good decision at an instant. It’s not a boardroom where we can discuss and plan. There’s no such luxury in cricket. You have to take that quick decision right there and then. I believe in the process and not the result. If you need to revisit you revisit the process and take the learning out of it. Don’t take the excess baggage out of it or lament your loss. That’s all irrelevant. You accept the loss and take the learning out of it.
You have a brand of being Captain Cool. How do you give feedback to a cricketer in your team?
I always like to discuss one on one. We are Indians and are emotional people. But our strength is that. We are probably the only country that has some 10,000 patriotic songs. We have songs for each of the family members, friends, etc. We run on emotions. I always believe one on one works for many reasons. Let’s say you have 14 people in a room and you point fingers at someone, he will feel bad. He’s not hearing and has just felt bad. When you talk to someone one on one and take that person to the side and say the same thing even add a few more adjectives he will still be fine with it.
You’re not a tech savvy person and don’t even like to keep a phone next to you. Does being disconnected help?
It helps a lot. I do have a phone but the only time I look for my phone is at night when I have to set an alarm for the next day. My phone only does the job of waking me up in the morning. It helps to keep it away as when you’re playing for your country there are bound to be a lot of comments on social media and everyone has lots of opinions. Some may say good things and some may say bad. As humans if you’re too much connected it can make you feel happy or sad. Many times we may know that there’s no relevance of these comments but as human beings some of them may still affect you. So especially before big matches I advise youngsters to stay away from the mobile phones. And even if you have to get on social media don’t get into reading the comments. A lot of times people comment for the sake of having fun. They also don’t mean bad, but it’s just fun for them. But when you’re going through a lean phase in cricket or even your life, everything starts to hurt. There’s anyway so much pressure on yourself otherwise, so it’s best to avoid any added and undue pressure. If I don’t read all these comments that come my way then I won’t think about it. And whatever I have to sort out about my life I anyway have to do it myself and I’m already doing it. And I have close friends, parents, guardians who will help me out. Logging onto social media won’t help.
Or Candy Crush?
No I don’t play Candy Crush on my phone. I like to play it on my iPad. I don’t like playing video games on a small screen. Text is too small on the phone and I can’t see properly. I’m ageing also now.
Before you retired there was a lot of pressure on your performance and it would have been very difficult to deal with so many expectations?
Retired from international cricket not completely from the game itself.
How’s your knee injury and what is the care you’re taking for it?
My knee has survived the operation. I’m wearing a knee patch and I’m doing knee exercises. This will go on till November 2023. The doctor has told me that by next month I’ll be fine but daily life is going on as usual and there’s no difficulty as such.
Has life become easier from too many expectations or in general are you more at ease now?
If you’re a celebrity in India, there’s always a certain amount of a responsibility and roles that you’re supposed to fulfill. That expectation is always there. Also I’m only playing IPL, so that means I’m actively playing cricket for two months in a year. Infact, it’s slightly more difficult as I’m not constantly playing, but I have to keep the same effect. I have to plan my whole year properly. I’m 42 running on 43 which means I have to eat properly and not just eat anything. At the end of the day nonone cares what age you are. If you’re competing with people at the top level you have to maintain the same benchmark. There’s no excuses for that. You have to keep motivated all the time. At the same time your friends keep complaining and saying we gave you a lot of time away, but now that you’re retired from international cricket you have to spend time with us and eat whatever we are eating. You have to balance it out.
When did you find out that you were going to be the Captain and when you found out you were going to be Captain did you plan how you were going to behave in the dressing room?
In 2007, we were on an England tour and they made me the Vice Captain for ODI. When the seniors were not coming for the T20 World cup there were chances that they would make me the Captain. Coming from Jharkhand, which was Bihar initially, I never thought I would play for the country. If playing for the country itself was such a big dream for me, then imagining being the Captain was unthinkable. So it was a surprise for me. But at the same time I wondered how to look at it. So I looked at it as if it was a responsibility that was given to me. I had seniors by my side and I was relatively new. I decided to keep it only as a role and a responsibility. I never wanted to feel superior to anybody in the dressing room. Yes, I have the responsibility of picking 11 team members and watch and guide them on the field. I kept it like that and took my role seriously. I never showed that I was a Captain outside of that field. When there are seniors by your side, you have to earn their respect. If you’re a leader, you need to get that respect from the people you’re leading.
Any example when someone was having a tough time and you gave a good advice?
When you’re in a situation of extreme pressure, you stop believing in yourself. Others believe in you, but the first person that stops believing is you yourself on the talent that you have. So you have to reiterate that these are the strengths that you have and you can work on it. Remind them that their strength will get them out of that situation. Usually we have felt that there’s no time to set some certain technical aspects right, but you have to tell yourself that this man for me is important right now in the tournament. Lot of times you even give them false confidence. A confident guy is much better than a talented guy on the field who is questioning himself. You have to make the most of what you have. What is the best way you can perform to atleast 90% of your potential on the field.
As a leader you have to be strong and not show your emotions. If you’re feeling vulnerable are you able to show it?
Irrespective of how good a leader you are, there will be times when you’re under pressure. It’s just that I’m not very good at expressing. The good thing is that I live in the present moment. When I’m in any situation I don’t think too much about my form or anything like that. I think about what is needed from me and what is the team requirement at that stage. Once I start to think of the process that is happening, I don’t need to dwell on what form I am in or how many runs I scored in the last game or weather that bowler got me out last time – these things become irrelevant. You have to believe in yourself as cricket is a sport where one day you would make 0 and the other day 100. Your form may come for a few minutes or may just go so we never know when those 10 minutes will come. You have to be positive and be aware of the situation. That’s what will get you out of trouble. Yes individual brilliance is there but you rely on the team effort. There may be a time when I’m not able to strike well and my partner gives me a few deliveries as we are scoring boundaries. That time we can score. Same thing can happen with that other guy and I need to take that responsibility. That’s what a team sport is all about. It is applicable in businesses and in families too. You have to look at in a way that you’re positive about it and you have to take care of everyone around you as a team.
Most of the youngsters these days are looking for quick success. For someone who has had a fantastic career, does it feel that there’s more to achieve? Is the hunger still there?
Right from the start, I was not the kind of person who would want people to remember as a great cricketer. I want to be remembered as a good human being. If you want to be a good human being it’s a process till you die. So cricket to me is a part of life. Once I started playing serious cricket and representing India, I realised that even if you play for 10 or 20 years it is still just a part of life. It’s one third of someone’s life. You want your life to be productive. If I’m playing I’m scoring runs for myself, but what is it that I’m doing to make things better around myself for me. What am I doing to make the life of another batsman around me better. So for me every day is important and I try to be a better version of myself and that’s what keeps me going. Cricket will end for me if not next year or the year after that, but it will be a part of my life that will stop, but my life will continue.
We would like to see you play atleast for another five more years.
Let’s take it one year at a time.
How did your life change when you found stability in a relationship?
It’s how you look at it. I feel as a man all the spice in our life comes from our wife. She keeps the life going. You may be the Captain or the Vice Captain of the Indian cricket team, it hardly matters to them. You have a place in the house and usually it’s not your choice. You may be the Captain at home or may not be. The whole thing is that they’re doing what they want and they make you feel that they’re doing what you want them to do. If something goes wrong they will blame it on you. They also help us in a big way as life is chaotic. Now imagine there’s a controller in your house who is training you how to control that chaos by creating chaos inside the house. Whatever said and done, we all joke about it, but wives definitely are the strength and pillar of the house, be it my wife or my mom, they’re the ones who run the family. I belong to a middle class background and I would see my father give the salary to my mom and he doesn’t ask her. It’s her responsibility how to handle that finance and run the house for those 30 or 31 days. They’re the ones who bring that comfort to the family. Often if I’m frustrated I may take it on my wife. Eventually I have paid a heavy price for it but that’s how life is. If you find someone if you’re really happy with, please do get married. There may be a misconception that some bachelors may have and I would like to clear that out – Don’t think your girlfriend is different from rest of the others (he quips).
Money has now become the focal point of everyone’s lives. Was there a point when you cared about money and do you still care? What is your relationship with money?
Money is an important part of life, but at what price. We all want to make money – for some it may be to make their parents or kids life comfortable, or for their siblings. Till the perspective is right and the way you make that money is right, I don’t have a problem with making money. Some may say I have a car that costs say 10 Lakh Rs and I want to upgrade it to 25 Lakh Rs. There’s no harm with it. But work towards adding money, don’t look towards multiplying money. Whenever there’s multiplication there may be a problem. If money is changing you as a person then there’s a problem. Invest in stocks and do it the right way.
When we look at a celebrity it may look like everything is perfect. But is it really? Is your life perfect?
We all have a set of problems – although it may be different for each one of us. Problems are the real essence of life. Imagine in the morning you don’t have anything to look upto because everything is running so smooth. During Covid my worry was what will I do with my bike if it’s not working. A few years back when my father told me you have played enough cricket, now leave it. When my daughter Face times with me and tells me to come and meet her and I can’t, that may be a problem for me. So there are different things that are a problem for different people. If these problems don’t keep testing us then how will we improve? So all of us need to have problems. If you’re well to do then it’s best to help others and to also guide others with your experience to give them a life where they’re not worried. It’s an abstract. Success comes and goes, you have to believe in the process and believe in the situation.
What was the low point?
In the World Cup when we lost, it was brutal. We were playing very good cricket at that time. Sometimes our plans don’t work. Like a CBSE question paper when you have prepared but questions are not what you have prepared for. We were feeling very bad. That was a low period. That’s when friends came handy. That phase teaches you what to do and how to handle it when things are not in your favour. It taught me how to be graceful when you win and how to recollect and come back even if you have lost.
Sports and investing are similar. How do you ensure you’re disciplined with the process and keep motivated. How do you stay grounded and humble?
The process is important and adaptability is a crucial factor. You decide to follow a path. The key is to be aware and keep revisiting your path. Everyone may have different views so one has to take the best of advice. Hear more than you speak. You have to reflect sometimes if you are doing the right thing. The same thing happens in cricket too. Majority of the time the answer is in front of us, but we are fixated on something else.
Which World Cup win is closest to your heart? Which is your favourite cricket stadium?
Very difficult to pick one. The set of challenges we had in 2011 were different from 2013. If you’re talking about the moment, some I remember very clearly. After 2007 the whole of the Queen’s necklace, people came out of their cars and everyone had a smile on their faces. In 2011 we didn’t see people celebrating in person as it was late at night. It was special as even before the win everyone had celebrating and chanting Vande Matram as it was clear that we were going to win.
It’s very difficult to pick a favourite stadium, but I’ve played the most at Chepauk Stadium in Chennai.
Now that you’re taking a little time off International cricket, do you plan on leisure travels and what are your favourite travel destinations to travel to?
I used to travel a lot but not for leisure. During my international cricket days we would go to all the cricket playing nations, but I couldn’t explore a lot. I was there to play cricket, so I would do that and come back. My wife loves to travel, so now our plan is that since we are getting some time off, we should travel. But we want to start from India. We have so many beautiful places in India so we must explore them first before heading to different places across the world. Indore has amazing snacks and if you start eating it doesn’t end. There’s so much variety of food in India. We plan to do a lot of travel in India to start with.
In 2019 World Cup did you genuinely cry like a child?
It’s difficult to control emotions. Once before that also I have cried. To me when we lost to New Zealand, it was the last day that I played for India, but I announced my retirement a year later. Once you’re high with emotions and you realise that the only thing you have done in the last 12 or 15 years is to play cricket, There are so many people but very few people represent their country. And that’s a big thing. Once I quit cricket, I was no more representing my country. So that’s a big change.
What do you think are the differences between meeting someone and giving suggestions on investment physically vs the digital world?
The world is changing and especially after Covid things have changed. I’m someone who likes to talk in person and look into the eyes of a person. If I have suggested in complete honesty on investing depending on my level of knowledge, the chances of right and wrong will be there. So if it’s not a biased thought process, even if it goes wrong, you can take that responsibility. You have to be honest to yourself. The same goes for cricket. We try to win each and every game, but sometimes our decisions go wrong, but what is important is to stand up and take responsibility. That’s what makes you a better human being and that’s what equips you to deal with a situation in a better manner.
What is spirituality to you and do have any active practice?
I’m a religious person and I don’t do anything significantly spiritual as such. I keep it simple. I try to be nice to everyone around me. If I’m at a hotel I have to behave the same way with everyone be it hotel staff or a manager. I don’t practice yoga but I’ve kept my life very basic and simple. I’m conscious of what is happening around me. I live in the present. That is important to me. If I’m here I am fully here and not thinking of the past or the future.
Tell us about how you manage your leadership qualities?
I try to make it as comfortable with everyone assuring everyone that they are on the right path. Cricket is a team sport but it is also a lonely sport. When a batsman is on the field, he is alone and he has to fight his own thought process. That final leap of faith is on the individual that matters. People may say a thousand things, but till the individual doesn’t believe in himself or his talent he won’t be able to perform. We can be their supporting actors, but he is the hero. Mental strength is very important. I see the individual as they are. I like to observe the person, his character etc. Suggestions need to be specific. You cannot manage everyone with one rule. You have to gauge their strengths and weaknesses.
Once you went home after winning the 2011 World Cup what was that thought in your head when you were alone?
I never thought that as when the World Cup got over, immediately we had to report for IPL. We were happy with whatever happened and were thankful to God, but we didn’t get time to sit and ponder.
The coach gives away the award to the best player, but the entire team has worked for it. How do you cheer for everyone in the team together?
One has to create an environment and that kind of atmosphere where everyone is happy. It takes time as every player may be in a different form, but we have one goal – that of representing India and playing for the country. We try to balance and work hard to build that environment.
How important is it to follow your dreams?
Imagine someone coming to me and saying I want to play for India. If he’s good in studies and not good at cricket I have to tell him what is right for him. It’s important to give them an honest guidance. As a coach you can see his strength. Hard work also needs to come at the right place. My working hard at cricket will give me results. If I’m working hard at something else, it need not give me such results.
Did you know that cricket is The thing for you in your earlier days?
No. I never got disappointed when I did not get selected in many tournaments. I never felt bad but I told myself if I work harder they may select me. Mind is the most difficult to control. It is about training the mind which is the toughest. One has to be rational. Emotions shouldn’t affect my decisions. Honesty, mental strength and ability to portray the best is required to keep motivated.
When there are setbacks, how do you keep motivated?
From my childhood that feeling has to come from within that you have to compete. Slowly that feeling keeps getting stronger. That feeling that whatever the job profile that I’m handling is fit for me and I’m the right person to handle it. If I’m doing any job I need to keep improving. Keeping things simple really helps.
Who motivates you?
In my growing up days it was Sachin Tendulkar. Whoever was born around 1981 have seen both the eras. We used to all think that we could also bat like Sachin. It was motivating to see him perform. After I started playing for India, the biggest motivation was my country.